I tore everything up and dug out a ton of roots along with hundreds of pounds of cement and rocks. The yard feels like walking on Mars, so there’s still a lot of work to do.
I dethatched, aerated, applied starter fertilizer, and seeded Black Beauty Ultra on September 10th. I’ve been watering at least twice a day.
About three weeks later, I added more seed and regular fertilizer to the bare spots. However, I haven’t seen as much progress as others have. Any advice would be really helpful…
Dethatching is a recent trend in lawn care that’s become more common thanks to YouTube creators and other non-academic sources. There’s widespread misunderstanding and misinformation about this topic. /u/nilesandstuff has created this automatic comment to correct some of those falsehoods.
Thatch is the layer of stems and roots, both living and dead, that makes up the top layer of soil. Grass clippings are not thatch and do not contribute to thatch. The thickness of thatch can only be assessed by digging into the soil.
Some thatch is beneficial. While some academic sources say that under 1 inch of thatch is good, most settle for half an inch. Thatch prevents weeds, tolerates traffic, and insulates against high temperatures and moisture loss, so it should not be removed. Over half an inch may not need removal if underlying causes are addressed, but an inch or more should be dealt with.
Dethatching as a regular maintenance task and not to address an actual thatch problem is NOT beneficial. Some thatch is indeed good.
Thatch problems are not typical. Excessive thatch is a symptom of other issues, including over-fertilization, overwatering, regular use of fungicides, excessive insecticides, high/low pH, and the type of grass (particularly weedy grasses).
Dethatching with a flexible tine dethatcher (like a Sun Joe) can significantly injure lawns in both the short and long term and may encourage the spread of some grassy weeds like bentgrass and Poa trivialis. In rare cases, such destruction may be warranted, but it should always be accompanied by seeding.
Core aeration is a far less damaging alternative to dealing with excessive thatch. It doesn’t remove much thatch or healthy grass but speeds up the natural decomposition of thatch.
Using verticutters and scarifiers is also less damaging than using flexible tine dethatchers.
For overseeding, less destructive options include slit seeding, scarifying, manual raking, or using a tool like a Garden Weasel. Be sure to check the seeding guide here.
Additionally, ensure you’re not contributing to thatch problems because of the causes mentioned above.
Hmmm. I see a lot of weeds still. You probably need to kill those off. You could either ‘nuke it’ with glyphosate or spray 2,4-D and quinclorac to preserve the existing grass (selective herbicide).
Ground conditions: Remove all hard debris, which sounds like you’ve already done. The soil looks poor; you’ll likely need to add another 1/4 inch of soil. Before laying seed, you should spray Tenacity; I know it’s intimidating, but it’s the only way to prevent weed growth without affecting grass germination. Look up how to mix it and do it carefully. Don’t skip this step, even if you’re tempted.
Seed: I’m unclear on how much seed you used, but you need 4-10 lbs per 1000 square feet. With as much bare ground as this, I would do about 8-10 lbs per 1000 square feet.
Fertilizer: You need to apply starter fertilizer. Scott’s is fine. Just ensure it’s high in phosphorus.
Sun: It looks like you have several trees. Do you have a shade-tolerant seed mix? Is it getting enough sun?
Water: Twice a day isn’t enough. Those are rookie numbers; pump them up! Keep the ground moist for about two weeks continuously. Get sprinkler timers and set them up accordingly. I do 7 minutes every 4 hours over two weeks when overseeding. Not sure if that’s the science-backed method, but it works for me.
Timing: It’s too late to do anything this year. Don’t try in the spring—it’s a waste of time. Focus all efforts on next fall.
I probably missed something, but those are some brief thoughts.
I believe you can do this. Keep trying.
@Gale
True. Hopefully, he reads your reply too.
I did indeed! I was also worried about planting and using Tenacity in the same timeframe. Additionally, the mix on the bag does say it includes fine fescue, thankfully.
@Gale
The Tenacity label states it’s safe to use when seeding fine fescue. I used it this year in my nearly complete reno of strictly fine fescue with great results.
Lane said:
@Gale
The Tenacity label states it’s safe to use when seeding fine fescue. I used it this year in my nearly complete reno of strictly fine fescue with great results.
It explicitly states that it isn’t.
@Haru
A very detailed reply! I really appreciate it. I’m saving and screenshotting your reply to apply for next year. I agree with all your points, and thank you for the motivation!
To answer a couple of your questions: Yes, I chose a seed variant that is apparently relatively tolerant to shade, so I did think about that. I also did apply starter fertilizer. I definitely think I didn’t use nearly enough seed either. Finally, I intend to increase the watering next year. Thanks again for the advice!
@Sunny
You’re welcome. See also the reply from the ‘Niles’ guy. He has some good points that I didn’t consider or was wrong about.
Looking great—it’s a usable backyard now!
Use 2,4-D in the spring and throw down some fertilizer. You’ll be golden and it will look fantastic by mid-summer.
Kelly said:
Looking great—it’s a usable backyard now!
Use 2,4-D in the spring and throw down some fertilizer. You’ll be golden and it will look fantastic by mid-summer.
Exactly! Haha, thank you. That’s my plan!
Those weeds look dominant. I remember my first few months of lawn care, crawling around on all fours like a cow everyday, pulling up any sign of weed.
Your yard looks much better than before! Great job!
